Marske Coastal Run Question

[Colin Chapman]

Me and Bill done an out and return from Marske to Staithes yesterday but did intend to goto Whitby. However when we reached Staithes the pair of us were quite low at around 200ft above and there looked quite a bit of wind shadow and possible rotor so can anyone answer the following please:

What is a safe height to cross Staithes and make it onto the next section?

If intending to do an out and return (Marske - Whitby - Marske) is there a point of no return by paraglider or has it been done already?

and finally are there any other tricky parts remaining as looking at Ron Dons trace it looks like theres at least one section of headland that can be cut off.

regards Col n Bill

[bill-scott]

maybe brian can answer this one as regards the team comp rules
we had two cracking flights yesterday marske to staiths and back then drove over to model and flew to hasty and back
the problem is when I was setting up for the second flight I checked my gps to see if I had enough track log left when i noticed I had the time interval set to 10 hours instead of 10 seconds so I hadent recorded the first flight at all.
I know as regards the xc-league the flight is lost but I seem to remember some discussion that track logs wernt completly neccesary for the team comp if this is the case can i salvage the points from this flight as it would be exactly the same as colins as we flew next to each other all the way
If this can be done great but if not well ill just have to take it on the chin and give myself a good kick up the arse
also if its going to upset or piss off anybody then ill just forget it as we only really fly for fun and points or not it was a very good day

[colin keightley]

I might be wrong but i think i read somewhere that once you fly into runswick bay there is no turning back. Cant remember where i read it so dont take it as gospel

[chrisfozz]

Getting to Whitby - one of thses days

Just as a matter of interest comparing the 3 flights below you can see we all had a good clearance to get past Staiths, a slight difference with Jim’s flight, he seemed to be climbing as he went past (it's the highest point on his flight) whereas Ron and me lost a fair bit of height getting across. I think this shows it’s difficult to pick a safe height; it depends on the conditions on the day. I agree with Col there does seem to be some obvious areas of rota, its important not to leave it too late and go for options b or c if there is some strong sink and there is not height to clear these.

Once your past Staiths, in my opinion, there is no way back on a pg or hg for that matter without some help from the elements, either a shift in wind direction or some of those elusive sea thermals. Heading towards Whitby, the glide across Runswick Bay is something special, again it requires altitude, you kind of fly off the end of a headland past Port Mulgrave and its about 2km glide downwind but with an obvious climb and good beach to aim for on the right if you are short. I think it would be difficult to get back from here.

We all know it’s dangerous, let’s say fatal, if you land in the sea but these flights show this run can be done safely given the right conditions. I would have another go to as I didn’t make it all the way to Whitby. (Well done Ron and Jim) If anyone wants to try this flight, I think its best to take your time, when you are established in good areas of lift have a look around and be aware of areas of rota or no lift and ensure you have safe height before you go on, obviously make sure you have landing options available all the time.

[GlennP]

You can get back from flying past Staithes and myself and Geoff did it without the help of the elements. I was flying an 8 year old DHV1 with 25 hours in the logbook at the time so it's not just for superheroes like Ron, Jim et al.

The key is a neap tide and knwing what lies ahead. I looked on Google Earth before that flight to see what we were up against. I had also flow into and landed on the beach at Staithes with no rotor experienced just a fast nil wind landing. This flight was with Arrif.

Geoff and myself got to Brackenberry Wyke which is I think the last bay before Runswick. Even though it's only a couple of Kms to thespur at Staithes it took 40 mins and a number of attempts to finally get across with the smallest of squeaks on the vario from a sea thermal right in the centre of the harbour. I was very low turning the corner around the headland though.

3 hour flight and landed by the car at the church in Marske after slow progress into a wind with a bit more westerly in it than when we set off.

[brian day]

Bill the team comp is for fun and as long as we have a trustworthy witness, there's no problem.
But I suppose that's where your problem is!
You're obviously not paying Colin enough, he's pm me, text me, offered me bribes, just to say you went down at Staithes and his superior airmanship got him back to the car, when he the drove down to pick you up!

But I believe you, not saying I'd buy a second hand car from you, but on this occasion!

Nice flights, well done everyone.

I chose to stay in the North East when everyone was flying 100k from the Peaks, then go to the Peaks when everyone was flying down the North East coast, maybe one day I'll get it right.

I'll take the points from Colin's' flight and give them to you as well Bill.

[Jim Bittlestone]

When i flew to Whitby it was the first time past Saltburn for me, so i dont have much experience on that route. I do remember that when i found lift, good lift, i topped up as much as i possibly could before moving on. As i didnt know what was coming next.
I agree that once past Staithes and looking across Runswick Bay it would be very hard to get back without a wind shift. The far side of Staithes bay worked canny and there is a good spot 2 or 3 bays on to top up and get a good view of Runswick Bay.
Not sure how much height to cross Staithes, but I had no turbulence at the height i crossed. Height is needed to see the route ahead too, to aim for the next cliff into wind. Once Runswick Bay is past, the next bit is not too bad, until the glide to the beach leading to Whitby. Here the house on the hill didnt work too well, so i looked low to a concrete ramp at the back of the beach. This worked canny and kept me up until the traffic eased so i could cross the road low to get to the hill behind. The final glide across whitby bay itself is tricky due to turbulence from the piers. Dont do what i did and head for the front cliff, top up first above the small beach if possible, then it may be possible to push on a bit...?
Well done all, Staithes and back is good trip, still think its a more ballsy trip than the Whitby trip.
Dont force it and let the conditions tell you its on.

[GlennP]

As Jim said topping up at every available bit of lift is good advice. I looked back and compared the two sets of pictures of my first Staithes flight and the 2nd out and return. Had much more height on the second run thanks mainly due to the huge band of lift out to sea all the way to Staithes.

After Staithes there wasn't much lift other than ridge lift and a lot of scratching was done to get back.

The magic sea thermals switched offas Geoff found out bombing out on the beach near the pier on the return leg.

It's a lovely run on a sunny day but as has been said time and again it is a dangerous flight and could catch someone out one day.

But what do I know? I couldnt even get across the gap at Marske yesterday.

[ron freeman]

Some good write ups there, very interesting.

For pilots new to going XC on coastal sites -

Study the pressure charts thoroughly before flying it makes sense to have some idea of what the wind is likely to do (these flights can last for hours so there is plenty of time for the weather to change)

Never fly blind... you should know what is around the corner (many pilots have come to grief making this mistake !) study the maps well before your flight also just before take off !

These types of flights are extremely dangerous when the tide is not out (again many pilots have come to grief making this mistake)

Prevailing winds are much more predictable than sea breezes so be careful not to get caught out, generaly S.B. start from the n.east and work round to the s.east in the afternoon (n.east coast)

Always fly the coast with a bridal knife and put it where you can reach it !

Be fully aware of what to do if you have to make a forced landing in water (might sound daft but a slim fitting life jacket is not a bad idea or use a harness that floats)

Always tell someone about your flight before taking off (gullies are very easy places to disappear into with no way out !)

Hope all this information helps but as you see coastal flying is brilliant but it does have many dangers.

Happy safe flips

[RonDon]

There has been some good advice given about flying down the coast from Marsk the one thing I would ad to what has been said , is a good time to have a go is when the sea is warmer than the air temperature, for sea thermals to work.
RonDon.

Thanks Colin for for keeping me right.

[colin keightley]

i thought its the other way round i thought the sea had to be warmer than the air

[John Wallis]

Isn't that what Ron's said Colin

[colin keightley]

It is now that he has edited it

[John Wallis]

Ahhh

[GlennP]

Don't be expecting sea thermals to get you back across the gap at Staithes harbour.

I got the smallest of squeaks going across the harbour on the way back and spent 40 mins scratching the cliffs on the way back.

Saw birds circling in sea thermals after Staithes but never felt that much through the harness or on the vario.

See pic of lift bank near Saltburn courtesy of Jimmy B.

[Sad Northerner]

Try not to over analyse the coastal run guys you can never put a hard and fast number on the height needed or the route to take when trying to avoid rota. Generally the route down to Whitby is fairly straight forward providing you slip round the corners of the bigger hills and are in tune with the glide of your wing. Getting back up from Whitby will be virtually impossible with today’s wings and you are much more likely to get yourself into trouble with rota or dropping into the sea.

Ali

Well done Ron...(how were the fish and chips by the way?)

[ron freeman]

Another pointer ! getting to Staithes is not a problem if the wind is more northerly but be very wary if flying around the corner of Staithes it will probably be very rough air (rotor)

I would suggest cutting the corner with plenty of height (sea thermals) or wait for a day when the wind is more north easterly.

On a good sea thermal day Iv'e acheived 1500ft asl on the dual hangglider
so paragliders should have no problem.

[RonDon]

Ali. I could not believe how big the fish was. The lady in the fish shop was asking me what my bag was, when I told here I got my fish & chips for free?