When pilots post flights on the message board, pic's, write up's, Xc league entries, should this be allowed when the sites have not been NOTAMED !
How long will our club continue to egnore this...I have posted many times about this and nothing happens
Most of our sites are bombared with low level military jets ! its just a matter of time before something will happen and we need to make sure we are on the right side of the C.A.A.
It only takes 5mins to NOTAM...
Maximise your time & dosh do both Hanggliding & Paragliding
The principal of using the notam system is sound,however as it is rarely my plan to be flying in the same location for the day I very rarely do it. In the lakes sites where I think it is strongly recommended to do it are: Whitestones, Langdales, Wrynose and Walla and where I think my xc's will cross these areas I do tend to notam. Maybe there could be a place on the forum for daily notams. The people can see where and when sites have been notamed.
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If you do end up flying and havent phoned in the previous day with a NOTAM its still quite easy to phone up and they set up an avoidance area. I think it takes two hours for it to become active but it usually takes this long to get to sites and set up anyway. Phoning in a NOTAM is really easy and quick and you can do multiple sites, I think most people usually have an idea of the sites they will be flying based on wind direction etc.
Anyway if you've never put in a NOTAM it is very straightforward and all the guide books have the numbers to call and grid refs etc it takes about 5 mins to do, its certainly important for midweek flying..
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Just imagine the next time you are soaring below 1000 ft a.g.l. and you hear a low flying jet... then you see it coming right at you !!! it makes sense to NOTAM its the only way you and our sport is going to survive.
Happy carefree flips.
Maximise your time & dosh do both Hanggliding & Paragliding
Last Friday I logged a NOTAM for Hepburn Woods and was told it was not necessary for an individual, just parties of 5 or more and whether I still wished to go ahead - I continued to log the NOTAM anyhow as for all I know another 4 people may have arrived by the time I was ready to take off. This was the first time I had been told of this rule of 5 by the NOTAM operatives although do remember seeing something along these lines, is it a new policy? As it turned out I did one top2bot not getting above take off once - such is life.
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The one time I actually filed a NOTAM, I had a near miss with a jaguar, it flew right underneath me, and within 100ft. I'm pretty sure they just came for a look because I had NOTAMED, Ive never NOTAMED again.
If it did fly that close to you then you should of filed a complaint with the MOD as you should when ever you feel your safety has been compromised or the MOD pilots have flown recklessly. The closeness of your incident should of also been filed as an airprox an investigated by the joint working body which includes the BHPA MOD and CAA.
I have filled many complaints over the years and although it is very hard to prove what happened on a couple occasions I have had aircrews prosecuted and taken off flying duties as their actions were viewed to be dangerous and compromising of flight safety.
It is very easy to be cynical about NOATMS (as a lot of things in life) however the system is there for our safety and the onus is on us as pilots to post NOTAMS, infact it is really a duty we have when flying mid week. Better to post and do all we can then be stuck on the nose of a Euro Fighter!
Yes Gordie I did file it and it was investigated by the joint airprox committee, I was represented by the BHPA, it was very interesting reading.
It was a bit of a joke what the RAF come up with, they claimed to be at roughly the same height but about 2NM away, but they slipped up when they described the undersurface colours of my hang glider The BHPA naturally said that it would be impossible to describe the colours from so far away. Also the fact that I had described seeing the (TWO) aviators looking up at me also proved that they had been very close, as Jaguars are normally one seaters. I was really surprised how massive the things are, got no wash off it but smelt the kerossene, --- quite an experience.
Fair enough John, that aircrew will think twice when they see a NOTAM posted in future, job done. So we can all see now the importance of posting NOTAM's.
As for turbulence form aircraft. It is commonly believed that the vortices of jets wings bend down towards the ground once the aircraft has past. So providing they don't fly directly over you one should be fine. If they did then turn out to the side!
P.S. I to have been as close as you to a jet on Walla many years ago, smelling the jet fuel and my chest vibrating like I was stood next to a big base speaker. Since then and after other incidents we have made Walla a NOTAM only site.
Hi Jim, I would say that East hill gets the most low flying military use (mid week) its seems to me that East hill is the inlet & out let to the Otterburn firing ranges.
Many times Iv'e had to topland on this site because it can get very busy !
I do beleive when we NOTAM they sometimes come back around for another look and occasionally tip there wings that if they see us !
NOTAMING keeps us on the right side & protects our sport.
Happy care free flips.
Maximise your time & dosh do both Hanggliding & Paragliding
The last two times I've been out midweek at a notamed site there's been some sort of military activity.
East Hill had a low flying helicopter come past very low over the trees near the parking area, and Captain Cooks had two low flying training aircraft come over, using the monument as a turning point before heading off south towards Bilsdale.
Does anyone have any contacts in the military who could find out if notams actually attract military fly-boys, or are we just being paranoid
Is it just down to the fact that the northern sites in general are surround by military training areas? Warcop/Otterburn/Spadeadam & the big training area off the Teesside/Yorkshire coast, D323A.
The Boys at FR Aviation who train with the RAF say that up to 1000ft is an area of avoidance but anything other than that is a notification of arial activity so an eyes peeled job.
Hi Dave,
Ian Brown and Pete at Northern both reckon the same, they notam loads obviously and mentioned more than once on the course that very point.
Nosey pilots!
Jim
NOTAM or no notam, do you think for one moment any of us would have any standing against the might of the MOD if it came to any investigations about close calls or even an accident.
NEWS AT TEN
A EURO FIGHTER was brought down narrowly missing a small village! The pilot had to make evasive action to avoid a person bumbling around on a paraglider, the EURO FIGHTER pilot Lost control and had to abandon the craft. The guy in the paraglider is intending to prosecute the MOD as he had NOTAM'd the morning before the insodent and clames he had right of way.
Its ridiculus
Sorry guys but your in their back yard and quite frankly your in thier way. They are trying to train to keep your rights to roam freely in your own country, remember.? The idea that they should change there plans for a few paper bags that might be possibly floating around is comical.
we should be ok on east hill as i think they have to fly above 200ft so we should be well below that. also we should always be flying vmc. also i am sure a notam is only to say your there, but does not say they are not allowed to fly there.
Hi All,
I've been watching this thread with some interest for a couple of days but unfortunately haven't had much time to go to print.
I recently spent 3 days as a guest of the RAF down at Valley. The purpose of this was to observe first hand how they conduct low level flying (training) and how the midweek notam procedure fits into their big picture and if indeed it is worth while us doing it and do they infact take any notice if we do. At the end of my visit I was offered a ride in the back seat of a Hawk on a typical low level sortie. I "reluctantly" accepted!! The plan is for me to write an article on this where I will go into more detail on what I have learnt and in due course this will appear on forums and Skywings etc. I therefore wont go much further here. However I will say YES YES YES do Notam midweek wherever you are flying from. They DO take notice and when planning(up to two hours before take off) your notam site appears as a blue circle of 2nm radius on their computerised planning screen. This will only happen if you have notamed at least 4 hours in advance. When they draw their lines between turning points they DO NOT draw then straight through any of these blue circles it is not in their best interests to do so! Now when planning is finished they print off their little map and then essentially have this folded up on their knees as they blast off down valleys. Their navigation is then based on good old looking for landmarks and cross checking on map all at 500mph! They may therefore occasionally go slightly left or right due to weather etc and may come fairly close to your notamed site as we are talking here about trainee pilots on a lot of occasions who may not always get it right but at the end of the day are just as entitled to be in your bit of airspace as you are. The rule is after all "see and be seen" However if you have notamed a site and one does stray into your 2nm radius circle then please call up same midweek number and let them know with as much info as possible.
Believe me they DO take notice, they actively WANT you to notam as often and as many sites as you like and WILL investigate any problems.
Our flight took us from valley across to coast in off the North Sea at Amble then across front of East Hill, over Hexham,down to Richmond, then up Wensleydale passing Stags, Wether Fell befor passing other sites in the Lake district. The only site notamed that day was Buttermere Moss! No others in Derbyshire, Wales, the Cheviots, Yorkshire, Dales no where!!
Believe me at 500 mph and at 250ft they aint got time to think " Well there may be a Paraglider over on that hill today so i'll keep left a bit just in case"!! IF IT AINT NOTAMED IT AINT HAPPENING so they may come straight through. In saying this they do tend to follow the valley bottoms but NOT EXCLUSIVELY
Anyway im waffling a bit now and as I said the plan is to write a more detailed account when I get time!! In the mean time please do notam sites wether you think the military use the area or not. They do get through to them and ARE considered and taken account of during their planning.
Oh and one final thing we are going to try and get feedback from them as to which sites are actually notamed regularly and which are not notamed at all so we can get a picture of where we need to educate pilots on the importance of doing so.
Thanks
Mike
it flew right underneath me, and within 100ft. I'm pretty sure they just came for a look because I had NOTAMED, Ive never NOTAMED again.
The BHPA naturally said that it would be impossible to describe the colours from so far away. Also the fact that I had described seeing the (TWO) aviators looking up at me also proved that they had been very close, as Jaguars are normally one seaters. I was really surprised how massive the things are, got no wash off it but smelt the kerossene, --- quite an experience.
that if they see us ! 
