Flying Near Big Clouds

[Jim Bittlestone]

This is posted on the CSC forum and a timely reminder of what can happen. The flight trace at the bottom of the page is interesting too.

http://www.poweredparaglidingontario.co ... ked_in.htm

Now for the elephant in the room:
This weekend I felt a bit uneasy about flying due to the size of the clouds, as well as the direction on Saturday. I have no experience of flying near big clouds, so I am unsure if my concerns are warranted?
The question is, should I just grow a pair and get on with it, keeping a weather eye or do I have a point?
Not sure if the weekends clouds were just big cumulus growing and disipating or proper CB's? What do others think?
I didnt fly at all on Saturday, the other reason being the direction, eventually flew on Sunday vowing not to get too high or near one of the big uns.

Not having a go about the comp or the organisation and running of the comp as we make our own decisions, and the advice from Kay and others about changing conditions at take off and elsewhere was helpful when the wind increased as forecast.

I'm asking as I'm not sure either way, even in hindsight?

[colin keightley]

My personal opinion is if your not happy with the conditions dont fly its got knowt to do with how big your gonads are.

[gary stenhouse]

often its who you speak to and there level of flying, if it was up to mad dog everything bigger than a small collyflower and its a cunimb. speak to ali who has flown all over the world and been around the big stuff has a completely different oppinion. for me it all depends on how i feel and how the lift feels. like the other day i new the clowds were big and it was clear the lift as i was getting closer to baase was much stronger. so i knew i had to move away from the strongest lift a good few hundred metres as i knew i would have been sucked in and spat out. i knew if this had happend i would of lost my bottle and cut and run. so i just kept it safe and constaantly evaluated where i was where my escape route was and that way i stayed happy all the way with no drammas or spirals or even big ears as with a peak big ears is a waste of time.

the thing is i am finding the more i am flying the more i am learning and after sunday been my 999 logged flight then i thin k i may now be starting to get the confidence back the i sadly lost 3 years ago but with a much better understanding but still got so much more to learn. and i must say i am glad it is taking so long as this way i am not getting bored

cheers gary

[ron freeman]

Jim, there have been many experienced pilots who have a been caught out flying close to big developing clouds, its a dangerous thing to do and not worth the rewards it may bring...

Don't think for one moment that you can out run a big cloud ! hanggliders have tried and lossed... so what chance does a paraglider have

Stick to nice little puffy cumulus and all will be well and if the forcast is for unstable conditions with increasing winds its time for the pub.

[brian day]

As comp organisers we were keeping an eye on the cloud development. On the journey over there was a development to the south east of the hill, but the area to the east and north east was clear and remained so for both days. The clouds over the Eden valley were developing quite quickly, but were disintegrating as they approached the hill.
The tasks on both days were set with this in mind. There was an occasion when we were watching one development very carefully as it was coming to a point of concern, however this too disintegrated sufficiently to keep the comp window open.
From a safety point of view the B comp was canned on Saturday and the whole comp stood down on Sunday. There were regular wind updates over the radio and advice for pilots on the comp channel
Everyone makes their own decision to fly, personally I'm not a lover of clouds and prefer not to be near or in them, but you can feel the effect of them well before you get to them and make your choice sooner rather than later.
I must admit to being in one of those 'is this sport worth the risk' modes again at the moment, something I have been through before and will take the time to think long and hard about. It probably does me good every now and again! I didn't want to take off on Sunday, I don't know why, just an inner voice, I did, and to be honest wished I hadn't. I could do with a nice flight to settle me down again.

[Sad Northerner]

Good question but to honest not one that can be answered easily so maybe we should have a bit of a chat about this at the next meeting. There is more to consider than just the size of the cloud when thinking about taking off or not. The speed of its development, the typical lifespan of clouds on the day, its shape the general weather conditions and the speed of the wind are all things to keep an eye on amongst other things.
Sometimes big cloud flying (I don't mean Cu Nims when I say big) can offer more security than when flying in conditions with small clouds or blue conditions.


Ali

[Jim Bittlestone]

I would like to discuss this as being so green to the sport I am not wholly sure. A chat is probably the best way. Every day and every cloud is different and i should have got my self next to some experienced people to listen to discussions on the day. I didnt. Just looking for more knowledge to base my decisions on, not after a yes or know.
My gut reaction was to watch and wait, be defensive, see what developed. I also felt that I may be missing the best part of the day.
Clouds can grow and dissipate just as quick, also the position of the cloud must also be relevant too. I dont want to base my decision around seeing others taking off so it must be okay, I need to qualify why its okay, or not.

I must repeat that I have no qualms about the comp and how it was ran, mentioned good advice on the radio etc. There were eyes everywhere with folk on the hill, off the hill looking back. No criticism there whatsoever. It was well ran and appreciated.

I trust the decisions made on the day were the right ones but next time the conditions are similar I want to have more knowledge to base my decision on. At the moment I think I may be too defensive?
I hope this makes sense?
Nor am I commenting on Garys flight as that was based on his knowledge, experience, decisions etc and as already mentioned I have little.

[ron freeman]

Jim, gernerally big clouds produce big lift with a large wide base !!!

If you do decide to have a go at this type of flying make sure you know the cloud base height and leave the lift well early as to avoid be suck up into one of them (min 1000ft below base )

The Crossfell area as you know is 3,000ft asl so you will need a very high cloud base if you decide to go over the back as to stay safe.

[myerscouse]

Speaking to one of our scottish friends yesterday ,he was telling me one of their lot on Sunday was hoovered to 14.500 feet and this in a blue part of the sky. There he got a great veiw of Scotland......ALL of it ! .
In my opinion both days where fine to fly in the morning but both days became potetially dangerous after about 2 pm which is why we started our event earlier on Sunday.
With regards to which clouds to fly near and which not to ...its very hard to describe as clouds are dificoult things to get perspective on. i.e is that a big cloud far away or a smaller one close by ? sounds a bit Sesame Street i know , but its true .
It is something that will come in time. In the mean time if in doubt stay out .It is always good to discuss this when parawaiting on a hill some where . But even then be carefull who you ask as oppinions differ wildly .I'd say its more a sense than a science, and am all ways wharey of the people who clame to know exactlly whats going on up there.
A very basic but handy rule of thumb I use...
IF ITS TALLER THAN IT IS WIDE......KEEP CLEAR

[gary stenhouse]

on sunday i was well aware there was bigish clowds but never too threatning however i realised that as i was getting closer and when i say close i mean 1000ft towards base the lisft started increasing a lot but also was very smooth. however i have been there before a few times and i didnt look up untill it was too late and then i was in the white roo big style, then i spiraled out and then made rash decisions. so my decision was to leave while in the strong lift and head down wind and a bit to the sunnyside for quick escape. yet i still was clibing i always kept out of clowd and kept my confidence and awareness high. soon as i hit sink and could see big dark base infront i barred it untill in lift again.

remember if you canot spiral dive or have very good rapid decent tecniques the stay well clear.

cheers gary

[John Wallis]

As I dropped two people off at Cross Fell on Sunday to get Alastair's Jeep I did comment on the clouds that looked a bit like a Bart Simpson Hair Cut thinking Woohhooo there will be some suck today. My take on clouds is if you have a low pressure system be careful the clouds will usually be big and possibly dangerous. If it's high pressure the clouds will be classic fair weather cumulus. The difference to watch for is quite simple. If you are going up under a cloud the classic cumulus will diminish as you approach cloud base ( Which of course you should leave at 1000 feet below base I never did work out how you judge 1000 feet anyway. You will then be able to play around in the wispies and enjoy.

However......

If you approach base and the vario is reading stronger and stronger be very careful as this cloud is likely to have the Bart Simpson hair cut. If you get pulled into this and I have you could get a height gain record. In short that is the two things to watch for as far as cu's are concerned.

Just think Bart Simpson and you won't go far wrong

[AlastairW]

I prefer Marge Simpsons.

She is so much better looking.

I mean, in a certain light, with that low cut dress she wears......

Its the drugs honest!!!