There is growing concern that using the "Classic OLC 5 points" scoring system is awkward to understand. I agree I can't understand it properly but if we all use it we are scoring from the same hymn sheet so to speak. Then there is the " OLC 3 turn point" maybe we should be looking at this as it appears a little more easy to understand even though you can score for not completing a triangle if you are within a certain percentage.
The rules are below if members would like to read them. Should we leave it as it is Classic OLC or change it to OLC 3 Turn points. This only applies to the winter XC league.
If you understand the system and can post an easy to understand guide please feel free.
i must admit i was sure last year it was done on olc 3 turn point not olc.
though for some reason at the meeting it was said to be olc though i think was a mistake.
olc 3 turn point is the way to go as this is what the nxl uses and is simple and gives ppeople an insentive to stay in the air and try and do as many runs on the same site.
Our xc league board only uses 3 turn point and open distance the other is OLC score which uses multipliers for different disciplines but is a score and not km
Just tried drawing some diagrams on a map and it just looks complicated is probably best demonstrated at the meeting. I'll bring my laptop along and i'll demonstrate it to anyone who wants to know.
Hi Gary last years winter comp was run on OLC not 3 turn point.
olc 3 turn point is the way to go as this is what the nxl uses and is simple and gives ppeople an insentive to stay in the air and try and do as many runs on the same site.
If it is the way to go can you try and explain in simple terms why and how it works this is what we're after.
Colin's correct the OLC gives the multipliers for the flight (It's coming back now) That's why we it was used for the coast as it's mostly out and returns. Would the 3 turn point be any better?
OLC is a definate no no for the summer XC league that remains open distance.
All input welcome.
Livetrack24 wannyjollis
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”
does it matter as do the clicks and you will see there is little change in positions whether olc olc 3 turn or open distance.
the nxl is proof that olc 3 turn is good for winter xc and even though it is used for summer as well it never gets won or even comes close too by 3 turn point. as once good conditions and open distance come about then it is more likely to be won by open distance anyway for the top 3.
I thought you had been using 3 TP not full OLC. I can't find the link I used last time for the scoring but full OLC is something like distance for TPs 1-3 = 20% of TP 3-5. OLC triangle scores are often well wide of the mark compared to FAI triangles - there are plenty of threads on the subject in NHPC if you use the search..............
John it is the OLC 3 Turn point that we use and it scores in KM not points and doesnt use multipliers.
Please explain.
On the XC league we have "3 Turn Point" "Open Distance" "OLC" forget the rest on there for now. Are you saying that the OLC tab is indeed the OLC 3 turn point? If so what is the tab with the words "3 Turn point on"
This is beginning to get on my tits. It worked fine last year I think we should just continue as it was.
Livetrack24 wannyjollis
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”
If we use OLC, it won't take people long to work out that you can actually extend the flight and have 6 turn points and a landing leg after that point, which is where you get bored flying up and down a ridge 6 times in order to get the best score. It took 45 mins to get 3 lengths of the short Horden run, most of which was on full speed bar. This equates to over 2 hours flying, probably over 2 1/2 hours for most people to optimise your score. For the sake of sanity lets stick to 3 turn point. Either that or out signs on the ridge warning of driver fatigue!
Both OLC and OLC 3 turn are the same we currently use OLC 3 turn for the winter league
OLC 3 turn scores in KM and to maximise your KM you can out and return twice.
OLC score is the same but scores in points so that if you do a triangle you score more points per km than you do a basic out and return or over the back.
Just had a good conversation with Miskin the first tab in our XC League which says "3 Turn point Distance" is what we are using for the Winter XC league. Anyone not happy with that please contact him for the explaination and not me.
Is everyone happy now ?
Livetrack24 wannyjollis
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”
if only the nxl was that easy, as you have to input manualy your chosen points using grid referance, which normaly means you have to change all your coordinates from lat long first.
If you understand the system and can post an easy to understand guide please feel free.
This post has been there as a sticky, since April 07 three posts up from this one. Nearly 2 years this post has been on the top of the Pub Forum, makes you wonder why people bother.
But when I look at the XC board the points that can be awarded for similar flight just seems so open to ''Optimization''
For example at the moment Colin is tops with 7.4 km total distance flown
John is second with 7.0 km flown at difference of 0.4 km.....YET
in OLC scoring Colin has a total of 57.7 as against Johns 31.5, and in 3turn point scoring Colin has 38.4 total as against Johns 19.9.. Yet the actual difference between them is only 0.4km...Could Johns flights have been better 'optimized' before posting ? or would Open Distance pure and simple be a much more level playing field for us all ?
You're not a Luddite at all Kay. As long as we all use the same "Tab" I can't see it matters that much for the winter XC league. But Miskin and Brian seem to understand the scoring better than most and they've both suggested that we use the 3 turn point point tab as it is "More fair and sensible" I'm all for that. This is one of the things that was going to be discussed at the last meeting but I think it got a little mixed up (OLC and 3 Turn Points) Plus it was such a busy meeting.... Anyway as I've said the general consensus is to go for the 3 turn point for the winter and open distance for the summer.
Let's hope everyone is happy with this.
Mr Miskin I will claim my prize on Friday it should only take 5 min's
Livetrack24 wannyjollis
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”
the 3 turn is in some cases easy but not always and can make some times a much more chalenging flight than just open distance.
ie, cross fell radar mast take off it would be easy in summer to take off in a westerly and head of cross down wind and land near airspace approx 16k yet the same flight down past wild boar and back will be much more difficult to make the same distance.
also they can make you think about what you are doing and what you need to do in order to get a better score and can sometimes make a boring ridge run a little more chalenging.
open xc is good but not always is it the b and end all as it can be a short flight and a big pain in the arse.
whatever the system i would say the winner will always be the winner as normaly the open distance is the easiest way to get over 30k per flight.
I've said the general consensus is to go for the 3 turn point for the winter and open distance for the summer.
Let's hope everyone is happy with this.
Yes, thank goodness for that, all we've got to do now is break the news to Neil.
Roll on the summer, when the flying will be good and the thermals long and plentiful!
But when I look at the XC board the points that can be awarded for similar flight just seems so open to ''Optimization''
For example at the moment Colin is tops with 7.4 km total distance flown
John is second with 7.0 km flown at difference of 0.4 km.....YET
in OLC scoring Colin has a total of 57.7 as against Johns 31.5, and in 3turn point scoring Colin has 38.4 total as against Johns 19.9.. Yet the actual difference between them is only 0.4km...Could Johns flights have been better 'optimized' before posting ? or would Open Distance pure and simple be a much more level playing field for us all ?
Its nothing to do with optimizing, Colin has just had better flights when you look at them compared to John. Out and returns and open triangles all make for beter scores compared to a out right a to b score which I personaly think is an old fassioned scoring system. But hey its up to ALL the NHPC members to decided on the rules and not people like me who are no longer members, or is it, it does not seem so.?
I remember quite a hullabuloo about Honorary members not having voting rights, but now it seems none members are eligable to have a say. I opoligise in advance if Ian Miskum is now a member again, last I knew, he was not.
last year it was olc and it should stay the same. just load your flight and see what happens who cares. As the reigning champion i think we should stay the same as last year. I was fun doing a long flight back and forward for hours just to get 1 point more than brian. If its not broke etc etc.
even though you can score for not completing a triangle if you are within a certain percentage. 
