Wednesday 3rd club meeting apologies

[bill-scott]

.next meeting Wednesday 3rd July will be chaired by Gary Stenhouse please accept apologies from myself ,Neil smith ,Ron don ,and Chris foster as we are in France at the moment taking part in the chamber open .we had a good task to day about 40 k but unfortunately. i flew int an area of very strong gravity soon after take of so am having a few extra beers tonight
a topic that might be worth discussing in a.o.b .
it has been suggested that we are letting down new members by not giving them enough support what do you think.? we have a few new members at the moment what are your feelings .I remember from my own experience there is a vast void when leaving a school before your are confident to get out yourself e an there is a massive drop out rate for new pilots so what can we do to improve the situation ???????im:?:

[John Wallis]

Invite all new members to the club BBQ and get to know them from the start.

[AngusB]

I'm just going to write this as it comes to me from my perspective.
Personally I find it hard to predict the weather well enough to know when it's possible never mind probable.
Maybe if we had some kind of a (I hate to use American terms but) buddy-up system where someone more experienced encourages a new/low airtime pilot to get out more.
I usually check the forum when I'm free to fly but if no one has posted when/where it is looking good I'd be non the wiser...& this only happens when that person is free to fly. Perhaps a daily flying report if anyone has the time to do this.
I have still never flown in the Lake District, I passed my CP almost 2 years ago...does that seem right when it's on our doorstep?
The last time I flew in the Dales was the day I passed CP.
If it wasn't for fuel costs I'm sure we'd be out more, but ironically this is the reason we need better communication. To share the costs & make it more affordable to travel to where the weather is more likely flyable.
Be honest with me If you think I'm out of line or if things are already in place for anything I've mentioned, maybe it's just me not being eager enough but I do feel I've missed more opportunities to fly than I should have.

[John Wallis]

Angus if you want air time (Quality Air time) You need to be going to the Lakes The Dales and North Yorks. The Cheviots are OK but they are not the best for easy soaring because they are generally small sites. If you go where I've suggested you will build up your flying hours. When I came out of the school and joined the club they were quite hostile towards new pilots (Amazing isn't it) I remember the then secretary saying to me what can you offer the club?? Then I drove up to East Hill with my shinny new P1 licence as it was then and just because I didn't have a glider on my car the Chairman of the time gave me a real bollocking and said he was to bring this up at the next meeting. It was enough to make you jack the sport in there and then. I put these remarks into memory and flew every chance I could get and decided to make myself a better pilot than the two on the committee they ruffles my feathers that much. It was only then that they decided to start talking to me and when I started flying lots more XCs then them they wanted to be my friend What a bunch of queer bastards they were in those days. Glad to say the people in the club are great these days and what I would say to people is contact all those names on the coaching page and talk to them that's why they've put there names up....To be asked!

As for the weather there's loads of good weather links. Look at the charts then watch the weather as it happens during the day and work it out. Lots of isobars on the chart lots of wind. High Pressure good low pressure big clouds and lots of suck not good. After a cold front has gone through with building high pressure lots of thermals good XC conditions but will also be quite bumpy. If it's just soaring you want Grey skies are good usually stable with the lack of sun. I could blabber on forever Get books on gliding weather and read them plus give me a ring if you want to discuss anything about flying I'm always willing to help if I can.

P.S. Shortly after I started flying I soon realised Ronnie Freeman was the man to beat so I became his travel buddy and we flew together for years. I used to watch and admire how easy he made it look and learned a great deal from watching him. He could never tell me how he did it he just had this very very good flying ability. So find a good pilot in the club and make the effort to latch onto him/her that way you will learn but people have to make the effort it doesn't just happen.

HTH

JW

[AngusB]

Cheers John, I'm glad to say it's definitely not as hostile an environment as when you were new to the sport, everyone has been great.
I already admire a few that frequently fly on the times I've been out & I listen carefully to their advice.
XC is something I'd like to achieve when I feel ready to take it on but I'd like to get out flying the bigger sites in the Lakes, Dales & Moors & hopefully this will lead me on to bigger adventures.

[gary stenhouse]

to touch on the daily advice this is a really good idea, as i am always looking to see what the conditions are looking like. even if i cant get out flying i normally like to think i know where the best place will be to get flying.

however lately i have been a bit more preocupied with my trials bike so not as willing to go out on maybe days.

i will start to put a post on when i think there is flyable days coming up and where the best place for flying or xc will be.

as for trialing it is so much more brutal than i would ever imagined and can be very painfull in the bargain. i guess i am back to being a beginner so it is a painful learning curve like most sports.

[Graeme]

Being just about at the point of transition from student to club pilot myself I find this to be a more interesting subject than XC : )

I was amazed and in awe at Ali's presentation at the last meeting - I would love to reach those dizzy heights and fly like that! And Colin's and Helens acro antics! And all the other real characters in the club - too many to mention! I truly admire everyone's dedication and determination to reach such high levels of safe flying ability and create such a professional and well organised club.

But the gap between my level and your level seems absolutely enormous and at times daunting! Clearly I need to invest many red streamer ridge soaring hours to my log book before I can begin to even think of making that leap of faith into XC and well informed independent decision making. Maybe even an SIV course too?

I'm not sure but as someone sort of still looking in from the outside it seems NHPC has some top XC fliers who are well in on the XC circuit but meaning ultimately - ridge soaring only - for as long as possible - isn't their idea of a good day out?

I'm probably wrong on that but my point is that it seems new students/club pilots could perhaps buddy up in the same way as the XC guys and create an equally well organised NHPC newcomers sub group? (with our own place on meeting agendas too? : )

Johns experience above seems harsh at first but in some ways (within reason) also has some merit. (it worked for you!)

So perhaps us newcomers ought to learn from our masters and begin to get together at every opportunity to form gaggles of ground-handling practice and ridge-soaring red-streamer learners as often as possible? Weather permitting of course. Show them we mean business and that we want to practice and learn as much as they do XC?

In most instances (especially flying) our sessions would require a supervisor / instructor with local knowledge and may be this is the no mans land that needs to be looked at more closely? Our need for coaching perhaps takes up precious XC flying time?

I'm not one to take undue risks to reach my goal and therefore would very much value the presence of supervisor when practicing. If a coach were to dedicate some of their own precious flying time to supervise and help a few well organised leaners all willing to improve I'd be happy to consider a small contribution to person or club!

We newcomers could also get together at good ground handling sites and motivate and buddy each other up?

Just an idea and I'm simply joining in the debate about Bills comment above trying to keep the focus in my newcomer direction and away from XC : )

Bottom line is there perhaps seems to be a slight gap in the clubs structure (or maybe even the BHPA qualification structure) with regards the continuity required to bring newcomers and low air time pilots on to the next level safely and confidently?

[brian day]

There are as many forms of flying as there are ways to enjoy yourself!!!
In recent years there have been a few people that have really enjoyed the xc challenge, but before that insurgence, probably very few.
Many new pilots don't realise how long it takes to take those first steps and presume all those that disappear into the distance have done so since they were first let loose from the school.
I can remember many a frustrating day on Blease watching pilots thermal up and fly off into the blue while I was taking off, landing, sometimes not very well in the rocks, and having a sweaty walk back up. I listened with interest to many Sky Gods, but only when I experienced certain things did their ramblings start to make sense.
I think it was 5 years or more before I left the ‘safety’ of the hill and still only a couple of times while travelling alone. Each season start sees many aborted attempts with a return to the hill, where later in the season I would go. Take your time; you will know when the feeling is right, it may never feel right and so what if it doesn’t!
It is very difficult to fly with other people from the ground up; there are few people with this skill and few occasions when the conditions allow. Working with people of similar ability as a new pilot is fine, good fun and generally safe, but I would say if the opportunity arises join in with those with more experience, don’t simply follow them around the sky, try to start making decisions, if they do something you don’t understand ask them why they did it. You don’t have to leave the hill when they do, return to the ridge and try to work with someone else.
The only way to get more from your flying, further along the ridge, flying to cloudbase, landing on a spot, is to feel it, experience it and ask yourself how to get better. The things that keep people flying are the unpredictability and the fact there is always something new to learn and feel.
I try not to suggest to people what to do on a given day, I often don’t know myself, but as long as I’ve enjoyed the views, the company or the flying, it’s been a good day, sometimes made better by better views, better company and better flying,,,,,in what ever form that takes on the day.

[Sad Northerner]

It's good to see, in the above posts, a frank and well balanced response to the issue of coaching.

From my perspective the whole issue centers round communication and responsibility.

Here's my take on it.

1. take the initiative ... I get lots of people asking me to drop them a line when I'm going flying next... what they mean to say is "I can't be bothered to learn how to read the weather or find out about which sites are on so you do the leg work and I'll tag along". If I responded to all these requests on an individual basis we would never get to the site.

2. be proactive.... check the weather and make a best guess as to which sites are on. Even if you're not confident about doing this the practise will help you learn site selection skills and you should always come to the table offering some ideas rather than just "where are we going today".

3. Phone, phone, phone...... DON'T BE SHY... You see it's like this ... paragliding pilots are generally egotistical and they like talking about flying...so if you call them asking for advise (flying advise) they'll probably wet themselves with excitement; so call away. If you wait to be asked to go flying you'll be waiting for a while.

4. Buddy up....,touching on what Bryan mentioned, it is probably best if you find yourself in a group of pilots of multiple abilities so that you can confirm your take on the weather and selected site and can bounce ideas off each other with regards to the actuals.

5. Accept that people have different agenda's.... we all have our own aspirations for flying if yours is half and hr at the coast then back in time for tea then don't get in the car with Stenhouse.

6. Be prepared to travel.... The Dales and especially the Lakes offer some great flying for newbies. The Lakes has a strong paragliding culture and sites for all directions within a ten mile radius if you go there you should be able to find people out on any given flyable day.

7. Be prepared to be disappointed... this is just how it is, you travel for 2hrs, sit on the side of the hill for another 4 then drive home having not flown. Paragliding weather prediction is not exact and even the best get it wrong....its not their fault they were just trying their best.

8. Give yourself some credit....just because your new to the sport doesn't mean that you haven't got a valuable contribution to make. I often find it more interesting talking to newbies about their opinion of flying issues because they tend to be less influenced by the 'conventional'. Anyone who tells you they know it all or are an authority on the sport is probably just a complete dick and, in reality, we are all still learners.

9. we are not Cumbria.... it's a simple fact that we are not big enough and don't have the sites to put on specific coaching days like Cumbria do, but, all our coaches are approachable and experienced. I make a point of pointing out site issues and concerns to newbies before taking off myself; I'm sure the others do too.

With regards to this last point I'm prepared to give some tuition to anyone wanting to develop their ridge soaring and ground handling skills but the logistics are difficult. In the past I've forgone my own flying and driven many miles to put on a session for progressing pilots only to find no-one turned up. So my perspective now is that those who want to learn will make the effort....by all means come to my house, meet the wife and kids and have crumpet and tea (you are all most welcome) and then we'll do some skills but don't expect coaches to forgo family, work and their own flying ect

Finally...PHONE, PHONE, PHONE...this will make the biggest difference just ask Jim Bittlestone. Gary Stenhouse has, in my opinion, has made a massive contribution to the club with his regular posts on where to fly and I know he likes talkking on the phone.


Phew....what a rant!! but seriously anytime drop me a line.


Ali
07859935159

[John Wallis]

and I know he likes talkking on the phone.

I was still in bed this morning when he got me

[bill-scott]

Great to see a sensible response to an important question.
I would summarize just by saying John Wallis was talking about hang-gliding and we all know they are all a bit strange
But what Ali said was excellent I would agree with every word of it with bells and whistles.
Maybe it should be printed out and given to every new member as part of a membership pack put to me the most important piece of advice is don't be shy PHONE! PHONE! PHONE!